James Sexton: How Prenups Strengthen Marriage
Marriage often conjures images of romance and lifelong commitment. But with a 56% divorce rate that climbs even higher for second and third marriages—and an estimated 10-20% more couples staying together unhappily—the "soulmate" ideal is statistically fragile.
What if one of the keys to a stronger, more resilient union lies in a place many of us are conditioned to avoid: acknowledging its contractual and economic realities?
Table of Contents
The Statistical Realities of Marriage and Divorce
Despite being a divorce lawyer, James Sexton believes strongly in the power of marriage, even while acknowledging its risks.
Huberman frames this risk in legal terms, explaining that the legal definition of recklessness is "a conscious disregard for a substantial and unjustifiable risk of serious harm."
Considering the sobering statistics, entering a marriage without a plan might indeed qualify as reckless. Sexton notes the problem is even bigger than the official numbers suggest. Beyond the 56% who divorce, he estimates another 10-20% of people remain in unhappy marriages "for the kids or religious reasons or because they don't want to give away half their [assets]."
Why aren't these realities more widely discussed? Huberman suggests it's because "the wedding industrial complex does not want people getting involved in that conversation... it takes away from the fantasy of things." This fantasy is particularly fragile when you consider that divorce rates climb significantly higher for second and third marriages.
Sexton inquires about statistics for first marriages with children, though Huberman doesn't have that specific breakdown. He notes that divorce statistics are meticulously tracked by the government through certificates of dissolution, which collect demographic information, including education levels and details about children.
The divorce rate varies globally, with Italy reportedly having the highest divorce rate, while countries with strong religious foundations typically have lower rates. Ireland historically had very low divorce rates because the practice was legally prohibited for an extended period.
Sexton observes that divorce rates tend to be higher in modern societies with open information environments and social media, where people constantly compare themselves to others.
In contrast, societies with strong religious narratives that prohibit divorce maintain lower rates.
Historically, tradition dictated staying married even when unhappy. However, in the 1970s and 1980s, cultural values shifted toward prioritizing personal happiness over the institution of marriage, leading to a spike in divorce rates.
As Sexton puts it, "tradition is in some ways, like the wisdom of the people before us, and they saw things we might not see. And to some degree, tradition is peer pressure exerted by dead people."
Marriage and the Unseen Contract
The Contractual and Economic Reality
Sexton emphasizes two crucial aspects of marriage that are often overlooked amid the celebrations: marriage as an economy and marriage as a contract. When he mentions these concepts, people often assume he doesn't appreciate the emotional and celebratory aspects of marriage—the engagement, the wedding, the merging of families. But that's not the case.
"I think what I'm saying is, look, this is amazing. This is wonderful. Why wouldn't you fall in love?" Sexton explains. "But, my God, be honest with yourself about the risks involved. Be honest with yourself about the ways you can hedge that risk, and be honest with yourself about the contract and the economy."
Huberman notes that understanding the deeper layers of things can add to our sense of wonder, rather than diminish it, referencing Nobel Prize-winning physicist Richard Feynman's belief that reductionist understanding enhanced his appreciation of the physical world's beauty.
However, Huberman acknowledges that for most people, the elements surrounding marriage—engagement, wedding, party—imply significant trust. "I believe in you. I have faith in you. I'm going to merge lives with you." The word "contract" can imply a lack of trust.
Sexton also encourages couples to recognize the "economy" of their relationship—the exchange of value each partner brings. "Why is it a dirty word to say, 'Hey, I'm marrying you. Why? What do I bring to your life? What do I mean to you? What value do I present to you, and what value do you present to me?'" Understanding this helps partners protect and preserve what's important.
Understanding the State's "Prenup"
"Every married person has a prenup," Sexton declares. "It was either written by the government or written by the two people who allegedly love each other more than the other 8 billion other options in the world."
The choice, he explains, isn't whether to have one or not—it's whether to accept the default agreement created by state legislature or craft one tailored to the couple's unique needs and circumstances. "To understand what a contract does, the first thing you have to understand is what are your rights in the absence of that contract," Sexton states.
How Prenups Build Trust
From Relationship Killers to Trust Builders
Contrary to popular belief, prenuptial agreements can deepen emotional connections between partners. Huberman noted that intimacy and trust fundamentally revolve around the ability to be your authentic self with your partner and allowing yourself to be vulnerable.
Sexton argues that these often-maligned contracts can establish a foundation of safety for both individuals and prevent common conflicts that might arise later. He approaches prenuptial agreements from a refreshingly different angle, explaining that having drafted hundreds of prenups, he typically develops good relationships with clients because these discussions dive deep into their fears and hopes.
Sexton makes a compelling connection between love and safety. "I don't know how you can feel loved if you don't feel safe," he states. The safety and clarity provided by well-crafted agreements don't diminish romance—they can actually enhance it by removing uncertainty and creating space for deeper connection.
Huberman himself expressed appreciation for Sexton's approach, noting that he had never considered prenuptial agreements as a way to increase the probability of marital success. By embracing both the light and shadows of relationships from the beginning, couples can create a stronger foundation for their future together.
Sexton sees beauty in acknowledging reality and imperfection: "I think reality can be beautiful... I think it's perfect. I think it's already perfect. There's something very perfect about how imperfect and flawed and frightened we are."
Why Couples With Prenups Often Stay Married
Perhaps most surprising is Sexton's observation that the vast majority of people who create prenuptial agreements stay married. Despite having prepared hundreds, possibly thousands of prenups over his 25-year career—typically drafting two or three per week—Sexton has only ended up handling divorces for about five of those same clients.
When Huberman expressed surprise at this revelation, Sexton elaborated that he believes it's a self-selecting phenomenon. "The kind of people who can have the conversations you need to have in order to have a prenuptial agreement, I think, are the kind of people that are going to be successfully married, period," Sexton explained.
He contrasts this with couples who avoid discussing potential relationship challenges, maintaining an idealistic view that nothing could ever go wrong. Sexton uses a vivid metaphor: "Falling feels like flying for a little while, you know, and then you hit the ground and it is waiting for you."
The Importance of Difficult Conversations
Sexton views prenups as an invitation to discuss difficult topics, which is essential for any successful marriage. "If you can't have hard conversations with a person, you have absolutely no business marrying them," he asserts.
These conversations, rather than being unromantic, can address fundamental questions. Sexton quotes a Prince lyric: "Would you run to me if somebody hurt you, even if that somebody was me?" He suggests prenup discussions can address this very question: "If I hurt you, what are you going to need from me? What do we need to be made whole? How can we both feel safe in this relationship?"
Throughout the conversation, Sexton emphasizes that healthy relationships require honest communication about difficult topics, including potential endings, rather than magical thinking or avoidance. These discussions are best had "when there was still an abundance of optimism and affection between these people," rather than during the adversarial process of divorce.
Huberman emphasizes the preventative value of understanding relationship markers before problems arise, noting, "By the time you're in my office, it's too late."
What Prenuptial Agreements Can Cover
Prenuptial agreements are essentially a rule set created together by couples before marriage and can be as detailed as the parties want. They fundamentally establish what's "yours, mine, and ours" in a relationship, mirroring healthy relationship dynamics: "There's you, there's me, and there's we. A healthy relationship still has you, still has me, and then there's this Venn diagram of we." This framework helps navigate financial decisions, such as protecting separate property.
Beyond asset division, prenups can cover surprising territory. Sexton shared a striking example: "I defended a prenup successfully where for every 10 pounds the bride gained, she would lose $10,000 a month in alimony when they split up. And a court upheld it." Despite the judge finding the clause "boorish" and "disgusting," it was legally enforceable.
Some include infidelity clauses with financial penalties, though Sexton discourages such provisions. Perhaps most surprisingly, pet clauses are often the most complex, covering custody, veterinary decisions, and even arrangements for a pet's remains.
Regarding property, Sexton explained community property (assets acquired during marriage belong equally to both spouses) and how, in some states like California, after a certain period (e.g., seven years), even separate property can become marital property. "In theory, the legislative intent was... after a certain number of years, you're like the tree that's grown in the way that now it's inextricable... Very romantic concept."
However, this approach inadvertently spiked divorce rates around the six-and-a-half-year mark. In a prenup process, each person must have their own attorney since they have potentially adverse interests.
How The Experiences of Men and Women Differ
Societal Perceptions and Custody Battles
Sexton notes how society treats divorced men and women differently. While the legal "maternal presumption" that automatically granted mothers custody was abolished in the 1980s, Sexton has observed that women still fight harder for custody. This isn't necessarily due to stronger maternal bonds but rather societal judgment.
A divorced father with weekend visitation raises no eyebrows, while a mother with the same arrangement faces scrutiny about what might be "wrong" with her. The judicial landscape has also transformed dramatically. When Sexton began practicing, judges were predominantly older white men, requiring attorneys to present themselves conservatively. Today's bench reflects much greater diversity, mirroring the communities it serves.
Infidelity
Infidelity triggers different responses based on gender, Sexton observes. When men cheat, they're condemned as morally flawed. When women cheat, it's often framed as a journey of self-discovery driven by unmet needs. Popular media reinforces this narrative disparity.
Huberman finds these observations intriguing, particularly regarding the different societal responses to infidelity between genders. Sexton notes that infidelity appears in over 90% of divorces, though he cautions against mistaking correlation for causation. Affairs are often symptoms of deeper relationship issues rather than root causes.
From his professional experience, Huberman observes gender differences in reactions to infidelity. Men typically first ask about the physical betrayal ("Did you sleep with him?"), while women more often ask about emotional betrayal ("Do you love her?").
Emotional expression during divorce also follows gendered patterns. Men, limited by social expectations to show either anger or stoicism, often channel various emotions through anger. Women, according to Sexton, tend to endure unhappy marriages longer but can become surprisingly resolute once they decide to leave.
The Significance of Surnames
In the world of divorce law, there are peculiar patterns that emerge, especially when it comes to married names. Sexton, a divorce attorney, notes that even highly successful women—C-suite executives and founders—typically take their husband's last name upon marriage. Meanwhile, men rarely take their wives’ names, though some couples have started hyphenating their surnames.
An interesting post-divorce phenomenon Sexton has observed is women choosing to keep their ex-husband's last name. The most common reason given is wanting to maintain the same last name as their children. As Sexton explains, "That's pretty common, which is understandable."
Though theoretically, the children could switch their last names too, having matching surnames eliminates confusion, particularly in school settings. Some men find this practice deeply frustrating. Sexton mentions having male clients who "want their name back" and demand that their ex-wives be prohibited from using it.
He has to explain that legally, they can't force this change. "You can't force her to not have your name," Sexton tells them, noting that anyone can change their name as long as it's not being done to defraud creditors. According to Sexton, this desire to reclaim a surname is often "just a pure expression of anger." Much of his job involves helping people identify what they're truly upset about.
Understanding Motivations for Marriage
Many men enter marriage not because they were particularly eager for the institution itself, but because it was important to their partners.
"Men say yes to marriage because it is important to her. And what's important to her becomes important to me because she's important to me," Sexton explains. This isn't a passive choice, as Huberman clarifies, but rather an active expression of love.
Sexton elaborates on this point with passion: "How is that passive? That's love, and it's economy of love." He draws a parallel to other aspects of relationships where partners engage in activities not because they personally enjoy them, but because they value their partner's happiness. "You think she enjoys Brazilian jiu jitsu tournaments? Have you smelled one? But she's excited to see me be so excited," he notes. This mutual accommodation represents the heart of healthy relationships.
As Huberman puts it, there's "the pleasure in sacrifice." Sexton builds on this idea: "What's beautiful is when you're not sacrificing to give. When there's this feeling of, if this is important to you, it just became important to me."
Sexton offers a common observation: "Men marry women thinking that they're not going to change. Women marry men thinking they will change." This fundamental difference in expectations creates inherent challenges in marriages.
Huberman provides an alternative perspective: "Women marry the man they want to spend the rest of their life with, and men marry the woman they don't want to imagine the rest of their life without." This distinction suggests women focus on building a future while men fear losing something precious.
The cultural narratives around marriage also differ significantly between genders. Huberman observes that while many women grow up imagining their wedding day, men often approach marriage pragmatically, accepting it as a necessary step to maintain a relationship they value. "I gotta marry or else I'm gonna lose her," captures this common male perspective.
When Relationships End
Love Is Loaned, Not Owned
The value of relationships extends far beyond their endings, suggests Sexton. "The fact that something ends does not mean that it wasn't valuable," he explains. "Every movie I've ever enjoyed ended. And if somebody said to me three-quarters of the way through it, 'You know, this is going to end,' I wouldn't be like, 'What's the point?'" This perspective highlights the beauty in impermanence.
Huberman sees beauty in the temporary nature of relationships. "The fact that love is loaned and not permanently gifted makes it more beautiful," he reflects. He draws a parallel to mortality: "The fact that I'm going to die for sure makes my life more beautiful. There's a finite number of sunsets I'm going to see."
This perspective extends to marriage as well. "Every marriage ends. It ends in death or divorce," Huberman observes, adding with dark humor that a wedding wish might actually be, "I hope this ends in death."
Rather than making marriage less meaningful, this impermanence adds value to the daily choice partners make to stay together. "The fact that every day this person wakes up and decides to continue to be your spouse and to continue to be your partner and ideally your cheerleader... the fact that they have free will, they have autonomy and agency and they choose you not just on one day where you put on nice clothes and played good music and everybody got drunk..." This ongoing choice, Huberman suggests, is what makes relationships beautiful and meaningful.
"I think some of the awful things are really beautiful," Sexton reflects, quoting Hemingway: "The world breaks everyone and some are stronger in the broken places." He applies this to heartbreak, suggesting that we can find strength through our broken experiences. "I've learned so much through love, and I've learned so much through loss. And I don't want my love of love to make me forget that loss exists. And I don't want the pain of loss to make me forget that love exists."
Divorce is an Opportunity for Self-Discovery
Huberman agrees that there's value in learning from past relationships, including divorce. "I do think as a divorced person, you learn a lot about yourself through the process of divorce. You learn a lot about what you don't want to do again in a relationship and what didn't work for you," he explains. This perspective frames divorce not as a failure but as a learning experience.
"I don't do anything perfectly the first time I do it," Huberman continues. "You don't learn how to swim by reading books about swimming. You learn how to swim in the pool." This practical wisdom suggests that relationship skills, like any others, improve with experience.
Sexton points out an interesting pattern: second marriages tend to last longer than first marriages, while third marriages have much higher divorce rates. Despite the statistics, there are many happy second marriages in his own family, and Huberman notes the value in these subsequent attempts.
The Lasting Impact of How Things End
The end of a relationship, like a restaurant check, comes at the conclusion, and planning ahead can help preserve what was once beautiful. "You can destroy 20 years of amazing, beautiful memories with six months of litigation," Sexton cautioned.
Avoiding bitterness is perhaps the most damaging outcome of failed relationships. Sexton notes a growing trend among his colleagues: people who had long marriages that ultimately ended but still cherish the time they shared together. These former spouses maintain friendly relationships, looking back on their years together fondly because their separation wasn't marred by difficult litigation. This is another compelling reason to have a prenuptial agreement.
"I have an ex-wife. I've been divorced for 20 years. She's been remarried for 15 years. She's a wonderful person. She's a friend," Sexton shares. He explains that he's a much better ex-husband than he was a husband, which requires a completely different skill set.
Similarly, he points out that being a good father doesn't necessarily require being a good husband – they involve different capabilities. Sexton believes that how relationships end profoundly impacts our perception of the entire relationship.
Huberman adds scientific insight to this observation, explaining, "There's something called one-trial learning. And it comes fast, and it sticks around forever unless you do something to reverse it. That's the basis of trauma." Painful experiences get etched into our nervous system quickly and can change our memory of everything that came before.
"The truth is, divorce of the ugly kind is trauma, period," Sexton states firmly. He explains that he witnesses tremendous trauma in his practice – trauma affecting both parties and their children.
Yet no client ever walks into his office requesting a complicated, expensive, or awful divorce process. Everyone claims they simply want fairness and a quick resolution. The problem, according to Sexton, is that each spouse has a completely different definition of what constitutes "fair."
Once both parties hire lawyers, they essentially arm themselves for conflict. Sexton compares lawyers to weapons that are neutral in themselves but can either protect or harm depending on who wields them.
What often goes unnoticed, Sexton points out, are the amicable divorces that don't make for interesting stories. The sensational, contentious divorces capture attention, while peaceful separations rarely get mentioned. "People who have an ugly divorce, it's so traumatic that it becomes part of who they are," he observes. The experience becomes a lens through which they view the world, severely damaging their ability to trust.
When people tell their divorce stories, they typically cast themselves as either the hero or the victim. Sexton appreciates people who can acknowledge their own flaws and cognitive biases. As Sexton describes his profession as "full contact storytelling" in the courtroom, he acknowledges his role in presenting the most persuasive version of each client's subjective experience.
In both marriage and divorce, stories that recognize one's own failures while also acknowledging legitimate grievances carry more credibility. "If you make yourself the hero or you make the other person the villain, you lose credibility tremendously," he explains.
Adult relationships are complex – more like "Breaking Bad" than children's shows with clear-cut heroes and villains. We want complicated heroes and villains we can empathize with because that reflects our reality.
The Courage of Vulnerability
Vulnerability has become increasingly rare. Sexton observes that people are afraid to reveal their authentic selves, fearing that their flaws might be shared widely or used against them. The rise of social media has amplified this concern, creating an environment where many are hesitant to enter the "spiritual contract" of mutual vulnerability that healthy relationships require.
"It's only brave if you're scared and you do it anyway," says Sexton, highlighting a fundamental point about courage in relationships. He argues that modern culture has lost sight of what true bravery looks like in romantic contexts. While physical courage might be celebrated, emotional courage—the willingness to give someone "the ammo to hurt you"—is often overlooked or even dismissed.
This conversation around vulnerability extends naturally to discussions about prenuptial agreements. Rather than viewing prenups as antithetical to romance, Sexton suggests they can actually deepen connections by facilitating important conversations about expectations, fears, and commitments.
He emphasizes that a prenup is not about lacking faith in the relationship but about creating safety and clarity for both parties. For men especially, Sexton suggests framing prenups as an extension of the provider-protector role. "Why do we not turn the conversation about prenups into how can she feel loved if she doesn't feel safe?" he asks. This approach acknowledges the complementary nature of relationships—the reality that partners often bring different strengths and make different sacrifices.
He shares a story about a wealthy client who insisted on giving his yoga-teacher fiancée a generous settlement in their prenup. When asked if he was concerned about providing such security regardless of how the marriage ended, the client simply stated: "If we get divorced, I got bigger problems... I'll know she likes me more than 5 million bucks." Ten years later, that couple remains happily married.
Huberman notes that generosity rarely leads to regret. In his experience, being more generous than one's initial impulse often proves to be the right decision in retrospect.
The discussion circles back to the profound vulnerability inherent in committed relationships. "When you marry someone the right way, or even cohabitate with someone, you're kind of handing them a dagger," explains Sexton. "Here's my soft spots. I'm going to show you where they all are... And I think that's the bravest thing in the world."
Both men acknowledge having experienced this vulnerability, with Huberman noting that he's "done it a number of times. Sometimes it ends well, sometimes it doesn't." But they agree there's something beautiful about the process either way—the courage to be vulnerable, despite knowing the risks.
When asked about navigating these challenges, Sexton quoted Carl Jung: "The thing you seek most is in the place you least want to look." He explains this applies directly to romantic relationships, where the core question becomes: What are you afraid to feel?
Sexton emphasized the transformative power of vulnerability: "I think that there's tremendous value in sharing with a partner and learning about a partner what it is they're afraid to feel." His worst decisions came when he convinced himself he wasn't good; his greatest joys emerged from his compassionate nature. He suggested identifying when you feel most loved and most loving, and learning the same about your partner.
Embracing vulnerability is about truly knowing yourself and your partner. Sexton emphasizes that genuine love involves wanting to understand and support your partner through their struggles. "I want to know what you need to work on. I want to be here to help," Sexton explains.
This leads to his appreciation for prenuptial agreements, seeing them as affirming choice: "I don't want you here because you have to be here. I want you here because you want to be here."
Crafting Your Relationship Blueprint
Imagination and Shared Vision
The concept of imagination plays a crucial role in relationships, particularly in marriage. Sexton and Huberman discuss how marriage revolves around an imagined future—two people deciding to build something together, even if they don't know exactly what it will become.
"Marriage is about an imagined future," Huberman reflects. "It's about building something together." He draws a parallel between marriage and business partnerships, noting that both involve imagination and collaboration toward a shared vision, though the outcome rarely matches the initial expectation.
Huberman suggests that having a vague but exciting idea of what couples want to build can be more authentic than rigidly planning every detail, comparing it to how unplanned conversations often yield better results.
Understanding and Expressing Needs
In relationships, people might not be completely honest with themselves or their partners. Sexton suggests that part of the allure comes from the biochemical cocktail of dopamine, oxytocin, and pheromones. Anticipating one's needs is challenging, especially in early relationships.
Sexton poses a fundamental question: to what extent do people understand their own needs, let alone how to express them? "The most dangerous lies are the lies we tell ourselves," Sexton explains, identifying two core problems: not knowing what we want and not knowing how to express it.
He expresses skepticism about conventional notions of love, suggesting romantic ideals were "designed in the 1950s to sell shampoo." The concept of soulmates seems unrealistic; he sees romantic attraction as a powerful combination of pheromones and dopamine.
The early days of love are "the greatest drug in the world," but if this intensity remained, "civilization would perish." This explains why affairs can be so intoxicating, making people feel "alive," as Esther Perel observes.
Despite his pragmatic view, Sexton affirms he does believe in love and the potential permanence of romance, "because I've seen it... It's just a rare and special thing." He compares marriage to the lottery but clarifies that, unlike the lottery, marriage is "a practice, it's work."
He challenges the notion that love must be "hard work," observing that happily married couples are "cheering for each other." Huberman notes the importance of "mellow times," and Sexton criticizes demeaning spousal tropes. In an age of social media comparison, he emphasizes the value of a supportive partner.
Despite being a divorce lawyer, Sexton is moved by love stories, understanding that at its core, love is about feeling loved, safe, and seen positively.
Seeing and Accepting Flawed Partners
Sexton recalls discussing the movie "True Romance" with Huberman. What makes "True Romance" special, Huberman explains, is how it portrays two deeply flawed protagonists who find authentic connection. "I see you for what you actually are, and all that negative stuff on paper, that means nothing."
Sexton contrasts this with social media's "advertisement of a life to aspire to." He notes that media once celebrated unique relationships, but social media presents idealized alternatives, creating a "yearning for something that one doesn't have."
True fulfillment comes from "basking in the completeness of what one already has." He questions whether social media is poisonous to values like appreciation and fidelity. In reality, even wealthy individuals can be unhappy without genuine connection. What people truly seek is unconditional love, found "not through fairy tales... It's through realism."
Navigating Social Media, Idealism, and Reality
Social media plays an important role in shaping our perceptions of relationships. According to Sexton, a friend high up in one of the social media platforms told him that "social media is 99% about women and female biology and psychology communicating to one another and to men and getting men to communicate to the world things that support kind of an ideal."
While men might show their workouts or compete with other men, there's an underlying current focused on presenting ideals. This constant presentation of perfect lives mirrors the Disney movie ending—the fairy tale wedding where everything is perfect.
What's missing from this narrative, Sexton points out, is the reality of relationships. "I don't think I've seen a movie or an Instagram account, for that matter, of a couple resolving a really hard challenge... like a discussion. A hard discussion."
Huberman draws a parallel to pornography's effect on perceptions of sex, noting that romantic comedies typically end at the high point, avoiding reality. "Most of these movies... they end at the high point... They don't ever have to live together."
Discussing pornography, Huberman notes its impact on young people's expectations: "If sex education is pornography, you're going to have a really hard time navigating an actual sexual relationship." The same applies to romantic relationships; the "soulmate" narrative is "pornography... taking the dream life... and then convincing people that's what it's supposed to look like."
Instead, people become increasingly entranced by an unattainable ideal while losing sight of true connection—the simple, everyday moments that can be experienced repeatedly without fear of them disappearing.
Huberman interprets social media as a form of advertising. "Advertising is the dream life of a culture," he explains. It presents ideals: what a certain type of person looks like, what they consume, how they behave.
While there's value in imagining what we could be, advertising fundamentally operates as the opposite of therapy. "If the goal of therapy is to create a sense of wellness and wholeness in a person... advertising is the opposite," Huberman states. The subtext is always: "You're not okay. You could be. Redemption is available to you."
Social media perpetuates this same message. Whether it's contrast therapy, saunas, cold plunges, or creatine supplements, the underlying message remains consistent: you're good now, but you could be better. Being bombarded with this messaging daily creates an unnatural condition for humans.
This helps explain why romantic relationships can feel so appealing. "You're closing the door. And this person [says], 'you're okay. You're good. I have you. That's what I need,'" Huberman reflects. When we live in an ecosystem where information becomes "a form of garbage" hitting us from every angle and telling us something is wrong with us, the desire to find refuge with someone who simply accepts us makes perfect sense.
The beauty of love is that it requires very little. "You don't need that much if you have love," Huberman observes. While capitalism embraces love insofar as it sells products for weddings or romantic gestures, the deeper truth is that finding connection with another person can make us realize we don't need much to feel fulfilled.
This unconditional acceptance explains why many people feel such strong connections with their pets. "Your dog doesn't give a shit what car you drive or what you do or if you got six pack abs," Huberman notes. Unlike relationships where physical changes might cause insecurity, we don't look at aging pets and think, "I've got to get a puppy, man. This dog is old now." Instead, our appreciation deepens over time.
When Sexton asks about the most memorable moments in relationships, Huberman suggests that the answer often surprises people. These moments "rarely cost anything."
When asked when he felt most loved in his life, Huberman shared a childhood memory about his father giving up the last slice of pizza for him and his friend. This selfless act showed him what love truly meant.
"Most people, if you say to them, 'What was a moment in your romantic relationship where you felt loved or just felt joy inside yourself?' The answer is not going to be 'we were at the most expensive restaurant,'" Huberman explains. It's typically some small moment of connection—holding someone's hand or appreciating how the light hit them during a sunset.
"Modern consumer culture doesn't shove that down your throat because you don't need anything," Huberman concludes. "You don't need to buy anything to experience that, other than find another person and love them, and let them love you."
The Daily Practice of Connection
Sexton vividly recalls a meaningful moment from an early relationship: his date, after initially being polite, poured an entire beaker of cream into her coffee. "We still laugh about that," Sexton shares.
What makes these small moments so powerful, according to Sexton, is that they become permanent possessions. "It's not like you want it again. You've got that. It's yours."
Huberman affirms, "It's intimacy... the ability to be completely yourself with another person." In early dating, people wear "Spanx on our personality." The coffee cream moment represented the transition to authentic self-revelation. "Eventually, you're going to find out she puts an insane amount of cream into her coffee. But these are the things we love about people."
These moments provide validation: "You're not crazy. You make sense to me." Both agree that expecting relationships to maintain early intensity is unrealistic.
Sexton's advice is practical: the best time to implement relationship-strengthening techniques is "Five or now." Small, consistent gestures like leaving notes make a significant impact. "Leave a note like, 'Hey, so fun on the couch with you last night... I married the prettiest girl in the world.' What does that take? 30 seconds."
Persistence with such gestures can transform a relationship, reminding your partner, "it's you and me." Huberman shares a story about friends who practice weekly "walk and talks," sharing wins and areas for improvement, focusing on what went right. This positive reinforcement can reverse the "death spiral" of grievances.
Sexton acknowledges some relationships are unsalvageable but emphasizes discovering incompatibility sooner. Longevity alone doesn't define success. A successful relationship is one where "we made each other's lives better for our coupling." What matters is creating something meaningful, not merely enduring. "I don't think that the duration of something is the success or failure of it."
Sexton uses a dog ownership analogy to illuminate commitment. While everyone enjoys the idea of running with a dog in the park on a beautiful day, true commitment means handling the less pleasant aspects too, like taking a sick dog out in the rain.
Embracing Uncomfortable Truths
"Learn how to fight before you get in a fight," Sexton advises. Understanding how to navigate disagreements before they occur is essential for a healthy relationship. Knowing whether your partner needs space to cool off or prefers to resolve issues immediately can prevent minor disagreements from escalating into major conflicts.
Sexton suggests that "living in the illusion" should more accurately be called "living in the delusion." People cling to precious illusions because pretending everything is fine feels comfortable, but it lacks honesty.
There's tremendous value in sharing difficult truths with a partner and being willing to hear uncomfortable truths in return. This exchange requires bravery—choosing the uncomfortable truth over the comfortable lies.
When Huberman asks about the correlation between the time people know each other before engagement and relationship outcomes, Sexton acknowledges there's no clear correlation. He shares an anecdotal story about a friend who got someone pregnant on their first date, married her despite Sexton's skepticism, and has remained happily married for 28 years with three children.
"It's a warming story," Huberman notes, "but it's anecdotal. It's not proof of anything." "It's not a playbook," Sexton agrees.
Sexton explains that it's not simply about the amount of time spent together but how that time is used. Just as going to the gym doesn't automatically make someone fit if they're just sitting in the steam room, time together is valuable when it allows couples to learn about each other through various circumstances.
"Perfect practice makes perfect," Sexton emphasizes. Time together is beneficial because you see someone at their best and worst, through difficult times and happy moments. He compares it to test-driving a car—if you could drive it for six months before buying, you'd make a much more informed choice.
The courtship period should test all these permutations of a relationship. However, Sexton clarifies that a long courtship driven by one partner's reluctance to commit might be a poor indicator. The true value comes when that extended time allows couples to see each other in various conditions—with and without makeup, when happy and when stressed, when healthy and when sick.
"To know a thing, know its limits. When it's pushed beyond its tolerances, its nature emerges," Sexton states. There's value in seeing a partner authentically and allowing them to see you authentically as well. Using time wisely during courtship provides tremendous value in building a foundation for a lasting relationship.
Sexton advocates for having difficult conversations early in relationships, noting that "the value received from that conversation is immeasurable." Huberman values bravery in having difficult discussions before marriage. "I think bravery on the front end is bravely having a conversation about, what does this look like if we hurt each other?" he explains. These difficult conversations, while uncomfortable, can be invaluable.
The discussion shifts to the hypothetical questions partners often ask each other. Sexton notes how questions like "if I was missing a leg, would you still love me?" reveal deeper concerns about vulnerability and conditional love. These seemingly random questions actually probe the boundaries of commitment and acceptance.
Huberman advocates for early patterns of honest communication: "We're just going to say what we're doing right, what we're doing that hit the wrong way." This philosophy extends to agreements about values and expectations: "What do we mean to each other? What do we owe to each other?" advocating for honest communication about inevitable changes in relationships.
He notes that changes in intimacy levels over time aren't necessarily signs of trouble – they're often normal evolutions in long-term partnerships. The key is how couples address these changes rather than pretending everything remains static.
Growth in Long-Term Relationships
The evolution of long-term relationships follows no single pattern, according to Sexton. He has observed relationships from multiple angles—high school sweethearts who stay together, those who reconnect after dating others, and everything in between—and has found both beautiful possibilities and potential pitfalls.
When long-term relationships work well, they create something irreplaceable: intertwined histories where partners witness each other's entire life trajectories. "You were there when my mom was still alive. You were there when I got into law school," Sexton explains, comparing it to old friendships where people stayed connected, "when I had nothing to offer you. I had no money, I had no status."
This shared history creates a foundation nothing else can replicate. However, Sexton acknowledges the flip side that often emerges during midlife reflection periods. Partners who have been together since young adulthood sometimes begin questioning: "Have I really felt everything there is to feel? I've only slept with this person for the last 15 years."
In these moments, people sometimes make the mistake of blaming their partner for their dissatisfaction rather than examining their own choices and personal growth. "It's much easier to point to the other person and say, 'Oh, you're the reason why I'm so unhappy. I gave you my skinny years," Sexton notes.
Despite his extensive experience with relationships, Sexton admits he hasn't found a formula for relationship success. "I don't see it. I think everything that's virtue can be vice." The same qualities that create depth and beauty in long-term relationships can sometimes breed familiarity and contempt.
He suggests that couples can strengthen their bonds by acknowledging natural human feelings rather than pretending they don't exist. When a partner's eye "wanders to a shiny object," Sexton recommends open communication: "That's a human way to feel. That's okay. How do we deal with that?"
Some couples are exploring ethical non-monogamy as a solution. Sexton points to the gay community as early adopters of relationship innovations, noting they became "relationship outlaws" out of necessity. "If you're on the outskirts of society, you're like, 'All right, well, we just make up our own rules,'" he explains.
Huberman shares an anecdote from a former professor who advised: "You should get married as young as possible, within reason." The professor's rationale was that younger couples develop flexibility together before becoming too set in their ways, before reaching the age where "you need to have the toothpaste on the right-hand side of the sink."
This perspective opens up the broader question of whether marriages that begin earlier in life might be more successful because partners grow and evolve together, experiencing life's milestones as a team rather than as fully formed individuals trying to merge established lives.
Ultimately, Sexton believes there are ways for any couple to nurture what works in their relationship while addressing challenges constructively. The key is not pretending problems don't exist, but rather facing them together with honesty and creativity.
Wrapping Up
By fostering vulnerability, practicing honest communication, and accepting the imperfections inherent in ourselves and our partners, we can build more resilient foundations.
Ultimately, whether aiming for lifelong commitment or a more amicable parting if paths diverge, this blend of heart and pragmatism offers a roadmap to more conscious, connected, and potentially more successful relationships.